America: Now more than ever, more popular abroad - just dont tell the pollsters

I've never understood how on one hand people overseas will tell the pollsters how much they hate America - and Americans, and yet our streets seem to be increasingly filled with people from all around the world who have risked life and limb and broken the law of their country and ours to get here.

I mean, if I dont like a restaurant, I dont stand in line for 4 hours to get in, I just go somewhere else. I sure dont stand in line for four hours and then say how much I hate the place.

I wonder if theres a sort of 'natural reflex' to just tell the pollsters what they want to hear, rather than tell them what you actually think.

Think about it, when the western United States was being settled, I dont think there were people saying how much they hated Oregon and California when they were selling everything they had and walking away from Ohio and other parts of the east. " I hate Oregon, so lets take our life in our hands and try to go there", followed by headlines that said " Oregon more unpopular than ever says poll of former residents of Ohio".

face it, if there is a line of people stretching across to continent walking to oregon, then any poll saying "oregon unpopular..." is clearly based on faulty data, right?


It's not that I've dont trust the MSM(I dont), its just that when my dashboard instruments give me information that is contrary to what I can see and test with my own eyes, I tend to think the instrument is broken in some way.

UPDATE: Welcome instapundit-eers.

Via the fabulous babalu:

19 men gave up everything they had in the socialist paradise of Cuba and risked their lives crossing 90 miles of open sea on a raft to come to the United States. Their reaction on arrival?;

"...The rafters were overjoyed! They wanted to know how long before they could get a job and were jittery with excitement at the world opened before them. Some of them reported that living under a system where you fear the police and the state 24 hours a day is not living, and to not be able to enjoy the fruit of your own labor is the worst form of slavery."

balseros2007.jpg

You see those big smiles? Gosh they do seem geniunely happy to be here, dont they?

(Funny, none of these men seem to have commented on our foreign policy stance with Israel. Perhaps they are just "immature" as one commenter on this post has opined.)

Posted @ January 24, 2007 07:25 AM | Current Affairs

Comments

The answer is simple. All you need to do is look at who is saying what. The elites are the ones saying how terrible America is, but the normal people know better and are the ones who come here.

Posted by: Fritz at January 24, 2007 08:34 PM

Shocking! You are going to trust your lying eyes?

Posted by: ic at January 24, 2007 10:04 PM

In 2002 I was visiting Thailand. I found the disconnect between what I was reading in the local papers and what I heard from the people to be amazing.

The elite was upset and protesting the brutal war of aggression in Afghanistan. (Yes, Afghanistan) But I whenever I talked to people on the street and they found I was an American they went out of their way to express their condolences for 9/11.

If you really want to judge how unpopular the U.S. really is, look at the lines for visas at the American Embassy or consulate.

Posted by: John Dunshee at January 24, 2007 11:34 PM

The answer is in the question. If they're responding to journalists, it means they haven't migrated to America, right?
Your trite comment borders on the old "Love it or Leave it" chestnut, which neatly, but revealingly sidesteps the idea that America was founded by those who understood dissent, and the importance of protecting it.
There’s lots to criticize about America, starting with our ignorant foreign policy, lack of respect for international law, expensive & inefficient health system, shocking economic inequalities, etc. Plenty to admire & emulate as well: entrepreneurial spirit, a finance system that works to create wealth, rather than protect the traditional elite, the ingenious system of checks and balances (threatened by the now-recognized- loser Bush administration), etc.
So engage the real debate, and drop the shallow, easy swipes at “critical foreigners”.

Posted by: jebuff at January 25, 2007 01:39 AM

If 5% have come to America and 5% want to come to America you still have 90% who havn't come or don't want to come to America.

Posted by: Bill H at January 25, 2007 02:12 AM

I think that you are misunderstand what they dislike. I live overseas, and it is clearer when you talk to them. What they dislike is not the living conditions in the US, they love that and would love to experience them. They don't like the foreign policies of the US.

Posted by: Brn at January 25, 2007 04:05 AM

I'm constantly infuriated but no longer surprised by comments like Jebuff's. His remarks are the reason why I've completely restructured my social life. I don't believe the authors of this type of autonomic lunging responses are unaware they commit the very things they complain about.

"your trite comment borders on the old 'love it or leave it' chestnut, which neatly, but revealingly sidesteps the idea that ....."

Go ahead and argue with something that *wasn't* said in the article, so much easier, which revealingly sidesteps what actually *was* said in the article.

Then to prove the point the article has made, no remark is complete without a Bush-derangement axiom. No, Jbuff, I'll pass on your Kool--Aid.

Posted by: boure at January 25, 2007 04:12 AM

People don't remember the 80s anymore. They hated us then, too. And they lined up in droves to come.

I've been many places around this world, I've never been anywhere where the taxi drivers didn't want to go to New York and drive there (it seems they all made it).

I read stuff like the US is unpopular and China is now more respected, but I know that noone is closing themselves in a shipping container with 100 of their closest friends to get to China. Well, there are some immigrants. People fleeing North Korea are moving up.

But millions of people every year are coming here, legally and illegally. Imagine what it would be like if we were popular.

Posted by: blaster at January 25, 2007 05:12 AM

http://battlefieldbiker.com/Anti-Americanism-and-American-Immigration
After reading the posts about Anti-Americanism at Instapundit and Frank Martin, it reminded me of many of the conversations I have had with friends in Europe. As some of you know, I am an American citizen, but English resident for the last 13 years due to marriage. I love Britain and enjoy living here for lots of reasons, but I also still love the U.S. and go back very often. I want my kids to be both British and American and feel comfortable in either place.

I agree with Martin that anti-Americanism is trumped up, both in the U.S. and abroad. I read lots about how the French hate McDonalds, Hollywood and America, but I don't see it. When I ride and work in France (over 5,000 miles so far), I usually have to wait in line at McDonalds (and there is one in most small-to-medium French towns), the cinemas are packed watching stuff like Independence Day and almost all of the people I meet are unfailingly friendly to me. The same for Germany, Italy and virtually everywhere else I ride in Europe.

However, I am troubled by the increase of anti-Americanism. What I have seen is more prevalent lately than before. I also think there is a good reason for it... a lot of pro-Americans are moving/ have moved to the U.S. This is not new (Scots-Irish, Italian, Vietnamese, Jews, Mexicans), but immigration from all over the world to the U.S., legal and illegal, has picked up since the end of the Cold War. In the departed countries, the remainder, by definition, will be less pro-American in percentage terms. The amount of Europeans and Indians I personally know who have gone or are planning to go to the U.S. is increasing. The lowering of pro-Americanism comes from two reasons. One is that the pro-American individual goes to the U.S., leaving the discussion. The second is that the people who are going are more vocal in their pro-Americanism, because they are the self-confident types who don't shy away from conversations about the topic, even if they know they might offend some of the chattering class types at dinner parties, etc. Additionally, the anti-Americans, who tend to be blowhards, are bolstered by the fact that the guy he argued with at last year's Christmas party about American cultural dominance has now taken a job in Boston, so the anti-American has the floor to himself. (note both the British and French guys I'm thinking about have worked for an American multi-national for years...being anti-American does not preclude you from taking the Yankee cash, does it?)[If you're curious, the French guy was the one who went to Boston].

Overall, I believe anti-Americanism is overblown, but I do see more now than I used to. The one thing I do think we all tend to agree on is that motorcycles are great! Now, the type of motorcycle?....that's another question.

Posted by: Battlefield Biker at January 25, 2007 05:18 AM

When I visited Ireland for the first time, I was advised to downplay the aspect of seeking "roots." The reason, my Irish friends told me, was that the Irish know the cream of the population left to go to America in the 19th century. Their own ancestors had been too stupid or lazy to leave and they didn't like to be reminded of it.

Posted by: Mike_K at January 25, 2007 05:22 AM

I lived abroad for many years, returning in 2005. In the UK, Hong Kong, Australia, and New Zealand everyone would tell me how bad America was, then ask me if I could help them get a green card to work there. I also found that especialy in the UK and New Zealand, when someone found out that I was an American living in thier country, they would invaribly ask "Why would you want to live here"?

Posted by: Harold at January 25, 2007 06:05 AM

You're making the mistake of assuming those people are intelligent.

Why do the same Mexicans who sneak in to the US to find work here want the southwest to become part of the Mexico which they are fleeing?

Why do Moslems who fled Islamic countries for Europe want to have Islamic rule in Eruope?

Why do infants soil their diapers?

Because they are immature.

Posted by: 23rh2h3g1 at January 25, 2007 06:24 AM

Most foreigners want to be as wealthy as Americans without having American values (or foreign policy). They can't (or don't want to) understand that American wealth is generated by American values.

Also, the more someone starts becoming like you, the more they resent you because everyone wants to have a unique identity. Jealousy works on a national level as much as on an individual level. Everyone wants to be as rich and powerful as the US, but in the pursuit of their own goals. That's also why they publically disapprove of, but private admire, the United States. Just look at China: it's basically trying to copy the American success story but with some crucial ingredients missing. That's the sincerest form of flattery.

Posted by: Philip Cassini at January 25, 2007 09:34 AM

I think the primary feeling that "informs" anti-Americanism in Europe and much of the rest of the world is resentment of various kinds.

Mostly resentment of America's outsized and not effectively counterbalanced power and influence in the world, whether military, diplomatic or cultural. Also resentment of American wealth and of America's pursing much more unabashedly capitalistic competition than prevails in much of Europe, particularly continental Europe, thereby they fear making their own quasi-socialist welfare schemes harder to sustain.

None of this cuts particularly strongly against moving to America, and joining the winners, if that works on an individual socioeconomic basis.

It used to be that America at least also kept the Soviets in check, which at least a part of the Euro population appreciated. Now the principal threat of Islamism is perceived by many in Europe and elsewhere as being notably increased by American polices, including but not limited to those related to the Israel/Palestine conflict.

Posted by: dougjnn at January 25, 2007 10:32 AM

Some big countries are very pro-American, as described here.

This also explains why left-wing racism is targeted towards certain groups, masked by opposition to 'outsourcing'.

Posted by: Twok at January 25, 2007 01:03 PM

DOUGJNN said: "Now the principal threat of Islamism is perceived by many in Europe and elsewhere as being notably increased by American polices, including but not limited to those related to the Israel/Palestine conflict."

I suspect in Europe that this perception is the key point driving anti-Americanism. Many of them honestly believe that the US trying to actually do something about Islamic radicalism is driving Jihad and riling up the Muslims, while American foreign policy is driven by the perception of it being the other way around.

Posted by: RPD at January 26, 2007 07:04 AM